The first word for atonement is kippur and the second is kaphar the two words are related which is the same word used in building Noah's ark where God told Noah to, "cover it inside and outside with pitch Gen. Day of Atonement, therefore, literally means Day of Covering. You have forgiven the iniquity of Your people; You have covered all their sin Ps.
I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels Isa. When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: The removal of the dirty robe is Justification.
God will not leave us naked will He? The robe is the changed in the life. Righteousness is the cover and can be seen by others. Then we must obey—without hesitating and seeking to find some way to be saved without obedience; this would be climbing up some other way. No one should venture or presume upon the mercy of God, feeling at liberty to sin as much as they dare It is a sad resolve to follow Christ as far off as possible, venturing as near the verge of perdition as possible without falling in. Robert, I really appreciate your previous comments on this subject.
You have enabled me to see more symbolism in Revelation 7: I think we can agree that the pure white robe symbolizes the righteousness of Christ - the character of Christ. The idea of individuals washing robes implies something they are doing themselves - changes they make in their own characters.
But the symbol also says clearly that they are washing their robes "in the blood of the Lamb" - and the paradox of making them white in the blood of the Lamb indicates the impossibility of this process by any humanly available method. Thus the word picture symbolizes that it is only through the power of Jesus Christ that it is possible to develop a righteous character. I had not before thought of the distinction of the biblical symbols of "washing" one's robes and of accepting a robe as a covering. Now I see that the washing must symbolize sanctification - which is the same as "keeping the commandments.
God truly watches over His Word, even in modern translations. However, I see the exchange in Zechariah 3: The text implies that Satan opposes Joshua the High Priest on the basis of his filthy garments. The vision acknowledges that Joshua is, indeed, dressed in filthy garments, representing a sinful character. But the Lord rebukes Satan Zech 3: We are declared righteous even before we are sanctified. This imputation of the character of Christ is not dependent on our perfect obedience, only on our acceptance of that which we lack. What a beautiful symbol!!
I'm not sure how an artist could illustrate the process of justification better than Lars Justinen did in the illustration used. It would take several illustrations to do more, rather than one. While it is true that the righteousness of Christ as in justification will not cover one cherished sin, it will certainly cover our imperfections.
If it were not so, we would all be without hope. It seems to me that an appropriate symbolic illustration for sanctification would represent a person washing a robe in blood.follow site
But I'm not sure what that would look like. Inge, Robert, Thanks for the thoughts about justification and sanctification as seen in Zechariah 3. I love how Zechariah gets so involved as in vision he watches the high priest having his filthy garments replaced.
He hears the Lord say that Joshua's iniquity is therefore removed. Then Zechariah speaks up, "put a clean turban on his head". And it is done! Or could the turban symbolize sanctification, since the transformation of our mind is part of the process of sanctification? Maybe it's not possible to isolate repentance, justification, or sanctification, since they all occur as part of the process of seeking God and His righteousness. Inge and Barbara, Justification is the act of forgiveness, period.
It comes only when by faith, one confesses and repents of sin. Confess means to agree with the conviction of wrongdoing. Repentance means to reverse one's direction in regard to what is being repented of, which requires a choice by that individual. No outward, visible sign, but an inward acceptance through faith. Zechariah was shown this process by the removal of the visible filthy garment. Notice the words of the Lord in Zech 3: Two separate actions, one following the other. The order can never be reversed as the Lord cannot sanctify the unrepentant sinner.
Sanctification is the new, visible direction in the life, which reveals the outward witness of change from the past. As Paul states; a new creature.
In Zechariah it is seen as the new robe which has now replaced the old robe which must be removed first , and is visible to all. This action takes place in the "books" of heaven, unseen by humans. The fair mitre or turban of the priest had a gold plate attached with blue thread with the inscription: I think this symbolism is such that no interpretation is really needed. Yes Barbara, Rom Repentance, Justification, Sanctification, all distinct actions, happening in order, in the process of reclaiming the repentant sinner by the Grace of God who loves to heal and restore anything that sin has broken.
This is God's supreme focus in Christ and His greatest desire at this time. Once that work is finished Robert, I tend to agree with Inge more than I do with you even though I see a lot of truth in what you say. To me Zechariah's vision is about justification alone and then after that then the admonition comes to walk in God's ways. We are never perfect through the process of sanctification even at the end of life even though it is necessary.
For that we need justification. The two work together but without justification we are dead meat. That is why Paul spends so much time discussing justification rather than sanctification when it comes to salvation. Tyler, Paul says much more about sanctification than many realize, and many might be surprised how much. Paul's specific arguments against the law as a means of justification has many thinking any focus on obedience is some sort of "works" religion, which is not his argument at all. If you look for it in his epistles, sanctification is probably his greatest focus.
It's everywhere throughout his writings. Romans and Galatians are probably the 2 exceptions, especially Galatians, where justification seems more focused on, when the actual focus is faith vs works of the law specifically the ceremonial law, in particular circumcision as a means of it. His arguments have been taken out of context by many, including a growing number of SDA's.
I appreciat the statement in regards to obeying the laws of the land and obeying the laws of God being possible. We obey the laws of the land to reveal the character of good citizens. We obey the laws of God to reveal Goo's character operating in and through us. God gives us the will power to accomplish both obedience to His laws and obedience to the laws of the land. William, the discussion seems to have a life of its own and I am not sure it is what "regular discussion" you wanted, turned out to be. The little bit of research that I have done seems to favor keeping the commandments in the KJV.
The terms contradiction and differences are not interchangeable as some think. Context is important and should not be overlooked also. I remember a well known Adventist minister saying during an evangelistic series. It says wash, your robes". This was many years ago, but the discussion is not new. There are also many apparent differences that some see as contradictions through out the Bible. How many and who were at Jesus tomb the next morning are examples.
What impact does this make on our salvation? The statement that the lady in your study group made about keeping the commandments is true under certain circumstances. You and someone else that commented, answered it correctly. It is impossible of our own accord. Without help and power from God, no matter what we determine, it is an effort in futility.
If we could, are we now righteous enough? The important robe is in Isaiah I would also ask, when talking about doing, or keeping the commandments. Is the great commandment what is in mind? Is there bias anywhere? Some suggest that I am misleading by accepting a translation that says "washed their robes" in Rev That is what I have to work with. When I have a non-believing person pick up any kind of a Bible, I meet them where they are.
Whether it was a translation error or not and scholars are divided on the issue , at the end of the day, all those who have washed their robes will be keeping the commandments, and all those who keep the commandments will have washed their robes. So in practical applied Christianity, there is no real difference. I totally get that some manuscripts are more accurate than others, and it is all very interesting and important to me.
I have versions I trust and versions I don't necessarily trust. Jesus is the goal of the Bible regardless of which translation you prefer. As a Bible Worker I understand my number one goal is to lead people to Jesus.
The Identification of the Reward
I also understand, that not only are people on different spiritual levels, they are also on different reading levels. You would not believe how many adults I meet who can't read very well or simply can't read at all. So I am glad when people find a version they like reading, because then they are reading. Like a friend of mine said, "The best Bible version is the one you will actually read. A discussion on such a contentious issue has the potential of taking the focus off the truth God want us to receive through His Word, and it is directly contrary to the intent of William's post.
We also will not publish comments delving further into the meaning of Revelation, even though the writer might connect them to the text under question. Again, prophetic interpretation is another contentious issue with many different viewpoints, and this post was not intended to host such a discussion. That said, we concede that one sentence in William's post could have been worded better. We apologize for not catching this before publication. Better would have been to leave it with what He said earlier:.
The context indicates clearly enough that that was what William meant. He was not doing an exercise in textual criticism. It would also be fair to say that the two translations complement each other. It is likely that we will publish a post on Bible versions some time in the future. Please reserve your thought on Bible versions until that time.
Perhaps I am a bit simple but it occurs to me that we forget by whose hand the Bible was given to us.
He who created the worlds and the stars does not find the wording of the scriptures beyond him. He who works not only on paper but in the minds of men is more than able to convey His concepts to willing mortals. While it is good to study and there is a place for scholars, we should remember that it was not the scholars but the fishermen and common folk who followed the King while the scholars debated.
My position regarding faith in God comes as a result of my life experiences with following Jesus. For 38 years I did my own way. Now, the years with Jesus 52 is all the proof I need that God is real. It is amazing how interpretation can change the way we see and understand the word of God. I wish i knew greek, but I don,t. Now I agree with Mr, Ben in discussing the different meaning of both translation. It is important to understand the word of God as God intended to, we cannot give different meaning to the word of God, after all it is his Holy word.
Many people would just stay with the phrase Wash robe, because they believe keeping the law of God is for the legalistic and fanatic. But the bible is clear, Keep the commandment is the commandment from God. He gives us the ability to do everything. I can do all things through Christ. God bless you all. Dear JK, the problem with Rev But that does not affect any teaching regarding the Law of God because it is clear enough in the rest of the Bible.
It is not dependent on any one text. Furthermore, if to wash our robes means to do our part in the character transformation process which is the work of Christ in us, then the two interpretations mean virtually the same thing. The person who is cooperating with Christ in the work of sanctification will keep the commandments. So there is no contradiction at all between the translations. Both translations refer to the fact that only those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and have cooperated with Him in the process of character transformation will be permitted to enter into the City of God.
Having red the pros and cons of these two different readings of Revelation I should think both are inspired as both of them reflect relevant elements of salvation. I think, our faith and the inspiration of scripture is not based just on one particular manuscript tradition nor on any one single text or passage. Systematic theology puts all biblical teaching together into one understandable picture for testimony and proclamation.
Textual criticism is in place as to reconstruct the text as far as possible, but it must not end there. Its place within biblical teaching as a whole ought to be considered. Washing our robes corresponds to justification by faith and grace alone and without any meritorious works, whatever. But the question remains: Does our justification by faith and grace alone bear any fruit visible in our lives? Such fruit is a product of being united to Christ as the branches are united to the vine John Pauls tells us that salvation comes through sanctification of the spirit and by the spirit.
For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. There are words in the bible being considered as corrupt as they do not make any sence, so the translators are trying to make the best of the situation. As to Revelation They have a firm footing in explaining the whole picture of salvation. It would indeed be a distorted picture to do away one over against the other.
It is possible that the tradition, reading about doing the commandments, was trying to avoid a one sided picture of salvation in adding the note on doing the commandments. In any case, as to inspiration, we may say with the apostle Paul: But we have this treasure in earthen vessel. It is neverthless the infallible word of God using fallible human instruments such as we are. Nevertheless, it is the word of God in human fallible language. The idea that washing our robes is part of Justification or Sanctification is extra-biblical.
The only secure reference in the Bible to people washing their robes is in Revelation 7: The robes were already white. The washing was extra, based on extra circumstances. Throughout the Bible the robe is given. The symbology is in the giving of the robe. The gift of God is eternal life, not something we earn by good works, such as washing. We don't scrub away our sins. Christ removes our sins from us when we are baptized into his death and resurrection Romans 6. We don't remove them from ourselves by washing them away.
Keeping the law does not earn our salvation. We keep the law Because we have been saved. If we have to wash our robes in order to be saved, in order to gain access to the tree of life, then we are back in the Roman doctrine of salvation by merit -- through the sacrament of washing. Ben, I have tried to stay out of this argument concerning the washing of robes as much as I could except for a tangent comment I made at the beginning. To me the arguments involved are rather minor. Whatever happens to the robes of the saints happens because of what Jesus did not what they do and for me that is where it's at.
It has no more works involved in it than having faith in Christ's atonement, it's all a matter or faith in what God does. As far as Rev 7: It's all about character. Pray for a transformed character heart so that you don't even want to go against the law - any law. Behold Christ's character and pray for His mind to be imparted to you. Just trust, believe, pray, obey. I have this typed up and stuck on my computer, I read it on this blog but can't remember the author I find this helps me put the Law in the right perspective.
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. If we would like to live or to have good relationship or friendship, with somebody or with our God,we need to know first his character. If the people want to live with liberty or freedom, they must know well the G government's laws and rules, they must know and obey the law in order to live peaceful life. Can two walk together, unless they are agreed? To obey God's law, there is huge benefit for this life and the life to come.
Take it to the heart! Hello William,this is a very thought provoking discussion! I understand what you are saying about not discouraging the people you are studying with. Most of us who are bible workers should understand. Concerning your clariyfing statement on your last post. There is a difference; All those who keep the commandments will have washed their robes, however, not all those who have washed their robes will be keeping the commandments unless they are familiar with them, unless you want to use the short version, "to love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself".
I have seen people accept Christ without knowing the commandments. Of this group there are those who accepted it as they learned of it and there were those who rejected it. There is a clip from Desire of Ages pg Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there. There were many in Christ's day, as there are today, over whom the control of Satan for the time seemed broken; through the grace of God they were set free from the evil spirits that had held dominion over the soul.
They rejoiced in the love of God; but, like the stony-ground hearers of the parable, they did not abide in His love. They did not surrender themselves to God daily, that Christ might dwell in the heart; and when the evil spirit returned, with "seven other spirits more wicked than himself," they were wholly dominated by the power of evil.
A change is wrought which man can never accomplish for himself. It is a supernatural work, bringing a supernatural element into human nature". So when one accepts Christ and is covered buy His robe Justification there has to be a continual abiding in Him, for growth in Him Sanctification.
Knowledge is vital, that's why we take our time and lead our bible study for participants to understand. And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me Acts 8: May God continue to bless your much needed work for Him. Wish we had more bible workers out there, what a blessing that will be. Ed, I'd like to suggest that you recalibrate your definitions here of Justification and Sanctification -- based on a whole new study of the biblical sources entirely apart from whatever you may have been taught in school. Sanctification -- set apart for holiness, that is, the New Birth experience, working from the NT roots, where Sanctification is translated from hagiasmos , which is derived from the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew qodesh.
Jubilee Bible And I said unto him, lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are those who came out of great tribulation and have washed their long robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are they who came out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Do We Keep the Law or Wash our Robes? | Sabbath School Net
And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Douay-Rheims Bible And I said to him: My Lord, thou knowest. And he said to me: These are they who are come out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
And he said to me, These are they who come out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are they which come out of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are they who came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Weymouth New Testament "My lord, you know," I replied.
World English Bible I told him, "My lord, you know.
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